shamlol...lolman...shaman rar!

[Onu]

~ Some whine ~

Regarding how shaman got "fixed" (and by "fixed" i mean nerfed) these past few months I'm starting to thing about dropping this class for good. This was really great to play a shamy since the day blizz decided to make the d**n review pre TBC.

Our review had some good stuff like DW and HS but unfortunately they stopped and it has never been achieved...the developers said we'll get "fixed" along with TBC...ok fine. TBC came and no fix came..*sigh*. We received 2 elementals with 20min CD?! W00t . BLoodlust with 10min CD and noting else. We just received toys with huge CD that's not what i call a class fix...

~ And now what? ~

Well we got an answer for the developers. They will look at the shaman class. Shaman community had some hope again..even if i kept mine and i was right on this point...

The fixes cames...w00t 50% chance that stoneclaw stun our target..IMBA! Eventho i wonder if a player would be stupid enough to hit that totem instead of me....worth a try tho..no?
But the gods make pay for such imba gift..so we will receive a 3sec CD on WF.

/sigh
/disappointed
/bash head on a wall

In few words...Shaman is nothing more than a walking dead corpse now and this will be even worst after this 2nd WF nerf.

US and EU Shaman forums is filled with whine post some are well written and bring some good balanced idea to bring us back to life...but it seems the developers don't give a nuts to this...Shaman is a DEAD class..."working as intended"

~ Ask yourself these questions ~

1 - Do you think shaman is fine or need a buff?

2 - Do you see much shaman 70 around that are happy with their class right now?

3 - Have you seen the mage/warlock/rogue/huntard numbers increase...shaman numbers decrease obviously?

4 - Will you roll a shaman to 70 thinking being a dps class at end game and viable in pvp?

5 - What do you expect from a shaman in raid?

6 - Do you fear meeting a shaman in pvp or you just think yay free HK (You actually target him first knowing it's 100% sure you'll kill him)?

7 - For healers: Do you ever try to heal a shamy in pvp..or it's no use he will die anyways?

~ My 2 coppers ~

Well imo shaman class is the one who got the hardest time against any others class in pvp as for pve I'm expecting to be gimped in heal again..which I'm sorry won't happened I'd rather like to not raid than push the same button again and gain for hours i didn't roll a shaman to be a freaking healbot.

When i started this class i was a support class..that can heal, tank, dps...now this is no more the case..can't tank anything, can't heal if enhancement spected nor dps if resto spected.

About CC...God this game has wayyy too many...every class has one BUT shaman...why? I spend 90% of the time CC'ed knowing I'll die in a second what's the point of this

~ The end of whine ~

Everything that has a begining has an end...this is also the case for whine.

This was my point of view about shaman status..feel free to comment what has been said!

Oh-Nu -

[krktie]

For PvE... 50% chance that stoneclaw stun = awesome! Bloodlust = great thing to use in boss fights. Both earth elemental and fire elemental have their uses too and were that tiny bit of difference needed between make or break a fight a few times.

Been Enhancement spec until now (crazy dps!) and if you invest into (mana) pots and get some +healing gear you can heal pretty much everything non-raid/heroic. Resto specced shamans can heal raids and heroics just fine (been doing most of those with resto shammy as healer). Right now, shaman dps is good enough to be definitely worth a raid (dps) spot, the only troubles we have is aggro. That's unfortunately a rather important thing in raiding!

But since it was mostly a PVP post.. nevermind Yes, CC is horribly annoying in PVP. I'm sure something will be done about it eventually but you sound pretty frustrated about the whole thing so I guess best do other stuff until they fix it instead of playing a class you get mad about!

PS: Grass is always greener somewhere else, but no one in their right mind would go play hunter in PvE if they want to be 'the best' at something. The majority of hunters are either farmers, farming alts or PVPers I suppose. Returning arcane shot from scaling skill to non scaling skill did take out a lot of fun again..

[bugrum]

Hmm, well.. actually, there is more then enhancment to a shaman. Enhancment is the most spec/class that can burst almost at will, at the cost of being very squishy.

At least for arena, we've found enhancment shamen to be the worst choice I think.

My Point? My point is there's other then enhancment, look at elemental, you can be a good hybrid in a good elemental spec. I can do very good sustained dps, and heal good too, I have healed also heroics alone with 40/0/21, so, it is possible.

But yes, I tend to agree that some aspects of shaman just need to be fixed, and soon.

My 2 pennies,

Meloken

[Tardon]

1 - Do you think shaman is fine or need a buff?
fine

2 - Do you see much shaman 70 around that are happy with their class right now?
few classes are

3 - Have you seen the mage/warlock/rogue/huntard numbers increase...shaman numbers decrease obviously?
not really

4 - Will you roll a shaman to 70 thinking being a dps class at end game and viable in pvp?
No, I'd roll a shaman thinking I'd be a DPS/healer hybrid

5 - What do you expect from a shaman in raid?
Being a hybrid that can dps a bit, and heal a bit, as well as supply good buffs (totems) to his/hers teammates

6 - Do you fear meeting a shaman in pvp or you just think yay free HK (You actually target him first knowing it's 100% sure you'll kill him)?
I fear shamans close to the point i fear warlocks

7 - For healers: Do you ever try to heal a shamy in pvp..or it's no use he will die anyways?
If you think a shaman goes down fast, try playing a fire mage

[bugrum]

You go down slower then an enhcancment shaman tardon in pvp at least. Shaman has no surviving abilities.

[Tardon]

Earthshock, Grounding Totem, mail armor and heals?

[catham]

I'm not playing too much lately, I was never in Heroics nor in arena... but I like Catham even if everyone can beat me (nay, it's not that bad). When I'm dissapointed, I just play with alts and when I see how far level 70 is, I have new motivation to play with Catham.
Remember the time when we were uber in PvP, perhaps one day they will nerf/destroy other clases and we will be back on the pantheon. For very casual players like me, Shaman is still great class. I can dish some dmg and heal myself, sometimes save life of warrior suronded by 3 fire elementals...
Better times will come, perhaps in a year but they will come.

[Slyvar]

With regards to fearing shamans in pvp onu...

Yavi and I have been doing 2v2 and doing fairly well. Lock/Mage combo is pretty darn good for CC and survivability. In between matches we spend a lot of time talking about the classes we can and can't handle. There are only really 2 that we fear to be honest. 1 is stunlock pallys. Healing pallys are annoying, but once their bubble is out they are easy prey. The other is shamans. Far as I'm concerned they are pretty darn good in pvp. Good healing, good dps, rocking totems... In fact one of our hardest matches so far has been against a shaman warrior combo, both of whom obviously knew how to play their classes.

To be honest, every class goes through cycles of buffing/nerfing/tuning. You just have to adjust to what's good and what's not at any one time. Resto shamans can be surprisingly annoying in pvp and elemental shamans are pretty nasty too. Enhancement.. well depends if you get CC off on em or not. So no I dont think shamans are a lost class, just like I dont think any class is. You just have to ride the tuning cycle sometimes!

Also it can be hard when your style of play has adjusted to how your class is, then they change it and your style doesn't quite fit anymore.

Meh, anyway, I'll continue to hope I never see a shammy/pally combo in the 2v2 arenas Feared even over double rogue combo...

My 5 pennies.

Sly

[jokk]

shaman pally is bad, but pally druid is so much harder...
and yes, i hardly play pvp anymore couse enhancment (my most loved spec) sucks so hard compared to other classes so i only can kill mages...
I havent tried but ive got the feeling that elemental/resto is ok for pvp? but we aint what we used to be :/

And about that we need fix, just give us something to lose/lower threat when dpsing... its just silly to get agro from half the dmg all other classes gets it.

[Onu]

Tardon

tardon said:

Earthshock, Grounding Totem, mail armor and heals?

Sorry Tardon but..LoL ;D

Earthshock<<<counterspell for 10sec

Grounding totem...absorb 1 spell every 15 sec...when i got 2shotted in 1 or 2sec

Mail<<<plate don't forget i go melee (but i don't complaint about armor..it's fine for me)

Heal..well i can't heal being stunned, feared, scattered, icetraped...and so on. Also i heal for 1,1k/1.5s when i take Way more dmg per sec..even if i heal -> counter spell -> silencing shot -> fell hunter silence

As a fire Mage you can easy 2 shot anything..you can escape anytime if you feel like it... (blink, 50% faster run speed, sheep) you have a shield that can keep you alive a little longer, you can stun your target a 2 sec or so....in the end you have more survivability and way more DPs (which make sense since mage is pure dps class)

@sly

Indeed resto and elemental can do something. I lost a fortune respecting again and again in resto, elemental..but it's just doesn't fit my style..i like dealing some dmg as enhancement. But since TBC it's getting very hard to kill anything being melee in pvp.
I'v noticed that shaman suffer poor itemization once again...and the lack of HP doesn't help. I see mage, priest, lock with over 10k hp when i hardly got over 8,5K with some epic...

As for pve this is not too bad we'd need to get our talent buffed (more like updated) but nothing extraordinary.

[bugrum]

What onu said - to tardon.

To jokk - elemental/resto shaman is very very good in arena, as we could see this week, much more survivability, ease of dps, and hybrid'ing. And can burst a lot too. Along with longer sustained dps.

Cheers,

Meloken

[eikahe]

*shrug* I wouldn't mind a buff, but to me this is all whine whine whine.

If they can squish you easily, change tactics.


I believe my out-of-nothing tactics would still work in PvP as intended, only would end faster if people saw me earlier



I can live with all those nerfs and buffs, but it would be lovelier if anyone in this godd**n world would focus on the classes themselves and not look at two classes at the same time which whiners and then Blizzard are obviously doing... It ruins the unique aspect of every class; in fact, comparisons ruin the whole game..

[Tardon]

Onu, earthshock deals damage, as well as has a lower cooldown.
Dont even try and say Grounding Totem isn't d**n f**k**g great... and in fact, it can easily take two spells, if they come right after each other.
So some classes has plate? Eh.. ok, and warlocks has pets... I dont see the point. No class is best at everything, especially not a hybrid.

You can't heal being stunned etc? Well... explain to me what every other class can do in those situations? nuts! We can't do anything either! (except locks and hunters, obviously, if their pet is unaffected).
That said, dont even try and say that the ability to heal isn't fucktasticly great. Yes it can be countered, but really, so can almost every ability in the game. Being able to cast 1½ sec heals, even if its only for 1k, is still great.

I have never two shotted someone in pvp, at least not for what i can remember (100% sure in tBC)
Yes I have blink. I also has less healthpoints and less armor.
50% run speed is a 10% chance on being hit, a deep fire talent, and dosn't prevent move impairing right after.
Yes I have sheep. You have that slowly down thingie. Warlocks have fear/seduce/charge. Rogues have stun. Hunters have Icetrap. Etc.
I have a 10% chance to stun a target with spells. And a 30 sec cooldown on dissorient. Yep.
My shield (unless your reffering to the frosty version, which i obviously dont have) takes twice the amount of mana. While yes, its usefull, its hardly a great ability, since 0 mana = 0 anything.

I'm not saying Shaman is greater than a mage, or a mage is greater than a shaman.
I'm just pointing out that I hardly think that shamans are an overnerfed class. And lets face it, at one point (a while ago, admitted), shamans really needed some balancing.
My oppinion is of course slightly biased, since I'm a mage, and everyone knows shamans are f**k hard for mages, but that is obviously the only thing I can comment on.

I can't say the fine details, or how great they work against other classes, only say my own experiences, and how i've seen them fair against others.

[Onu]

Tardon

This only concern enhancement PvP issues

Earthshock deal what..700dmg every 6sec (5sec with talent) and this is all we got to deal additional deal while enhancement..CL and LB is used occasionaly...but i'm sure you'll laugh seeing an enhancement shaman trying to kill you with LB or CL..not viable and it's normal.

Grounding totem..hmm yes..try to drop a grounding totem when sheeped ...Once again if the players infront is not a complete tard he will destroy it with wand..Totems got 5HP..even a lvl1 can kill them..imba? not at all.

Before TBC i could use heal since i had 5k HP and my heal healed me for 1k..si one heal = 1/5 of HP pool knowing that the damages received were lower -> Heal was useful indeed!

After TBC i have 8,5k HP and i heal for 1,1k (550 if i have MS, or rogue poison which is less than a normal hit) -> almost 1/8 of HP pool knowing that damage received is now increased -> Heal is useless now ..if i start healing in any fight I'm 100% dead..the only solution left is to pray for a luky WF between 2 CC. IMO they should increase the dmg healed by lesser healing wave to make it a viable spell again..the hp pool is now 100% increased when the heal is 10% increased..make sense?

Look... from my own experience and from what i read on shaman forums where is the result of a 1vs1 duel

Shaman vs Warrior -> warrior win, start heal = 100% dead since the dmg dealed >> dmg healed

Shaman vs Rogue -> rogue win with 100% hp left any day, even if i can strike back..huh evasion+Cloack of skillz..i can deal 0dps for the 2sec I'm not stunned.

Shaman vs Hunter -> Hunter win 90% of time. If the hunter is not a complete tard he win this easy..endless kitting, immune to all stun - snare, pet stun, silencing shot ftw (hunter actually got some useful 41pt talent).

Shaman vs Warlock -> Warlock win 99% of time. 3 dots is enough to take 80-90% of my heal...CC to dead. And please don't come with "You have tremor totem" this one is totally crap 90% of the time i run out of range..don't forget it proc every 5sec..and 5sec is alot! But sometime if i get very very very luky..i can whoop his ass.

Shaman vs Mage -> Here it's a matter of spect..frost mage 100%win, fire mage..depend on the open..if it's sheep pyro, pom...i'm 100% dead 2 or 3 shotted. So yes i can kill mage but it's pretty random...most of the time if they lose they just escape..shaman don't got any talent to reach his opponent so..i'm doomed. (here again grounding totem will absorb 1 spell every 15sec...when icelance is an instant cast...so i got hit by 14 icelance before it can absorb a new one....)

Shaman vs priest -> Shaman win most of it...

Shaman vs drood -> Drood win 90% of time...the 10% is most likely nub drood.

Shaman vs Paladin -> This fight can be weird..I already got stunlocked to dead by rogueladin but most of the time it's more likely 50-50. Well as everyone know once they used their bubble it's game over..unless the pala HS'ed ;D

This is not my imagination...this is what really happened right now. Before TBC shaman played correctly had a decent chance to win vs any class...After TBC it's a freaking miracle if you win.

Just for the record..go AV and look at the scoreboard at the end...I really doubt you'll see a shaman on the top. Warlock, hunters, mage, drood, priest are the class you will most likely see on the top. If you have been in an AV with a shaman on the top of scoreboard after TBC post it I'd like to see that.

Shaman class is screwed in pvp big time this is a fact. If you don't believe me..reroll one to 70 and see it by yourself.

[mard]

not every spec is supposed to be equally good in everything ... i dont spec for combat and whine i cant kill stuff in pvp, or for shadowstep and whine that i cant top meters in raids.

sidenote : oh and tardon, i find that comment about us all being able to do nothing when stunned quite amusing, coming from a mage