Tardon
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Post by Tardon on Apr 1, 2007 16:42:17 GMT 1
Stunned was merely an example of CC'd... Could say feared, seduced, sapped, silenced, disoriented, gouged, sheeped, deathcoiled, that whirlwind thingie, etc... saying "stunned" was easier And Onu, I wont go into further commenting on it I already stated my points, all thats going on now is "back I'm saying this" vs. "not true, its this way", which wont lead either of us anywhere
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Onu
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Post by Onu on Apr 1, 2007 17:59:42 GMT 1
@mard Well enhancement was a viable pvp spect pre-TBC it's not anymore post-TBC and this is not right. TardonWell you got a point here...
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Post by Kurse on Apr 1, 2007 18:16:05 GMT 1
As Mardragg says the problem here is that you are confusing deep enhancement (41 points +) with a pvp spec. Dual wield is pretty much not intended for pvp imo. The essential pvp talent for shamans has always been natures swiftness, and nothing I read on shaman forums suggests its any different now. From the way you talk aboout not having any survivability and everything can be countered it sounds like you don't have it.
It sounds to me like you fell in love with these new enhancement talents - and they are bewitching and great in PvE - and you can't bring yourself not to spec for them. I sympathise I really do, but look at your post and then kinda look at it the other way around. All these talents suck so much in PvP - Why are you speccing for them then ? It is of course awesome to be a duel wielder, its cool as f**k, but it simply isn't as *good* (for pvp) as it is cool. OK so in your mind you were gonna be a melee pvper, but there's nothing in the shaman class description that suggests you will excel at this, and sure at one point a 0/30/21 spec was king - you have to accept that the game has simply moved on from that time.
Shaman being a hybrid class my advice is you shouldn't play it if you have such a focused idea of what you want to do with it. Its all about adaptability and responding to the situation, in this case that means adapting to the rather large situation that your preferred spec and the cool talents are no good in pvp at the moment. But you will face the same sort of issue in any other class too - I was recently whining that rogues had to decide between speccing PvP vs raid PvE vs Instance PvE.
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Onu
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Post by Onu on Apr 1, 2007 20:13:23 GMT 1
But the solution is so simple... - make SR remove fear-stun-incapacited - give us a way to reach our target. - slightly increase heal Pretty simple but seems blizzard developers are too dumb to understand this...do they ever played a shaman?...That's the question
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Tardon
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Post by Tardon on Apr 1, 2007 21:48:01 GMT 1
Onu, I sympathise... For mage, first it was fire that was the best pvp spec. Then it became frost. Then it became elemental. Now it went back to frost. It sucks when the focus of playstyle and talenttrees get moved around >.<
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Onu
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Post by Onu on Apr 1, 2007 22:59:32 GMT 1
Indeed...well i'v been 'forced' to respected elemental again if i want to do something in pvp...even if i lack gear i'm doing way beter then enhancement...sadly it seems that elemental is the only way Anyways...nothing much i can do about this but just hope we'll get a fix someday... NB: You gotta change your sign Tardon..mr frosty
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Tardon
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Post by Tardon on Apr 2, 2007 0:02:16 GMT 1
Oi, I'm still 41 fire just not 58 fire like before
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Felbane
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Post by Felbane on Apr 2, 2007 2:03:23 GMT 1
But the solution is so simple... - make SR remove fear-stun-incapacited - give us a way to reach our target. - slightly increase heal Pretty simple but seems blizzard developers are too dumb to understand this...do they ever played a shaman?...That's the question no clue what sr is so leaving that part. a way to reach your target.. yeah, I'd agree here. assuming they want shamans to play like warriors in pvp and get away with it. slightly increase heals? they already did! its called +(damage and) healing gear. I had shaman heals hit me for 2k and more, its clearly not impossible to get more than 1k heals. If you want to heal yourself as well as deal damage, then you should gear for both. You can't expect to be able to play a hybrid role with specialised gear. Did blizzard never play shamans? I have no doubt they played shamans. They have people that get paid to play shamans for days and weeks at a time. Why aren't they changing anything? maybe because there isn't as much reason for the complaints as one could think. consider that by the shift to TBC, everyone has gone from playing with gear they spent the better part of a year or two years gathering, to whatever they could scrape together in the month they were lvl 70. The hitpoints to damage output ratio has been severely changed, and a burst damage dependent char like an enhancement shaman is the looser in this equation. I think another reason for the lack of changes is that blizzard is trying to make shamans into more of a hybrid class than it has been, and a pure enhancement shaman with only melee oriented gear just isn't what they want to see on the battlefield. If pure melee shaman is what you want to play, you're just out of luck.
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Draktull
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Post by Draktull on Apr 2, 2007 7:20:18 GMT 1
well me as a priest beeing holy or shadow have fear from shamans. also i think that fear is only cause i dueled Zimon back in days :/
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Onu
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Post by Onu on Apr 2, 2007 20:21:16 GMT 1
In a general note: I point out that blizzard told us we'll got buffed in TBC and in the end we got nerfed (at this point we got cheated)...but seems we didn't receive enough nerf...WF has to be nerfed again with the stupid 3sec CD. So since shaman class has been looked into we received a 50% AP nerf and a 10% dmg incerase...which result in a total of a 10% dps loss and now once more nerf with 3sec CD on WF with result in an additional 10% dmg nerf. So we got our melee dps reduce by 20% when all other class got their dps increased by X% and received new offensive spell what shaman ofc didn't get. At this point it seems that the only viable 'hybrid' spect is elemental as for the 2 others this gimp us to oblivion. @felb SR = shamanistic rage...41pts talent I'm still speaking for enhancement here...getting +heal gear make so sense since it's will gimp our dmg too mutch...so no +heal for enhancement. ~ Before BC with no +heal ~- I could heal 1/5 of my HP with "Lesser healing wave" - The amount healed was superior to the damage received in 1.5sec (which is the casting time) ~ After TBC with no +heal ~- I can heal 1/8 of my HP (see 1/9 later with better gear) - The amount healed is inferior to the damage received in 1.5sec (which is the casting time) ~ Conclusion ~ Heal became totally useless because if you start healing since the dmg received are superior to the dmg healed you get killed anyways. DMG>>HEAL -> DEAD The point is HP to heal were 5k before and now lets say it's 10k with full epix. Lesser healing wave healed for 1k before TBC...Now it's heal for 1,1K. So HP are increased by 100% but heal only by 10%...go figure ~ Shaman is an hybrid class....Orly? ~Elemental spect :- Good spell dps - Middle heal - Bad melee dpsEnhancement spect :- Bad spell dps- Bad heal- Good melee dps Resto spect :- Bad spell dps- Good heal - Bad melee dpsSo whatever spect i choose there is at least 1 weak point which make shaman a false hybrid. Compare to the other hybrid..aka drood...whatever spect they chose they can still do fine heal, spell dmg, melee dps, tank. @drak Like i said before priest is barely the only class enhancement shaman can kill...RUN!
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terridon
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Post by terridon on Apr 3, 2007 10:47:18 GMT 1
Onu - It's really not the totems fault that you run out of range ;P
I simply can't beat two shamans in arena. Best working thing so far has been to drain them empty of mana.. and then start to dmg.. i'm usually dead before that ;/
Warriors was aslo told they would get buffed, and locks got buffed.. and then nerfed from demonologist.. had to change because of that.. annyoing to change.. but not much else to do. i hate healing shamans.. they are a pain in the ass ;/
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Onu
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Post by Onu on Apr 3, 2007 13:55:10 GMT 1
Onu - It's really not the totems fault that you run out of range ;P In fact it is...fear speed has been increase some months ago and the range of tremor is only 30 yards...so most of the time i run out of range...easy solution would have been set tremor's range at 50 - 60 yards Blah they must be resto or elemental then.. Annoying..yes it is and this kind of things should NOT happened when you actually pay to play that thing... Yes they are...but it's also pain in the ass to play one can't do nuts but heal.
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Post by Saedoc on Apr 3, 2007 16:29:22 GMT 1
wow onu have you ever played a druid?
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Grul
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Post by Grul on Apr 3, 2007 16:45:10 GMT 1
Blah they must be resto or elemental then.. Yes they are...but it's also pain in the ass to play one can't do nuts but heal. Same for most classes though... You're admitting that resto/elemental shamans are good in PvP, which means the shaman class itself isn't broken. If enhancement isn't good in PvP, then spec out of it I love playing a protection warrior, but playing one in PvP is a joke. No damage output, no group utility, the only thing you get is survivability (which is meaningless since everyone ignores you, kills your team, then comes back and takes 5 minutes to kill you at their leisure). If I wanted to be good at PvP, I'd have to spec for it (i.e. spec for Mortal Strike). I'd love to be prot and be viable at pvp, but it's never going to happen
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Post by darnaro on Apr 26, 2007 12:56:55 GMT 1
First off, hello to you all as im new to this forum -waves-
Being Resto, i feel the most powerfull in Arena and PvP. Tryed all of the aspects(ele, resto, enh). With 8500 hp, Earthshield, Nature's Guardian, NS heal.. etc. i can survive _alot_ on my own hand. But, when pvp trinket is on cooldown, i have to eat the melee attacks, though my +1400 healing, i cant outheal a MS warrior, and i cant Outheal a Rogue due to stuns and kicks.
in my 2v2 team, i group with a affliction warlock, they only combo we simply havent tryed defeating yet is Warrior+Pally.
imo, the Resto tree is very completet and functional, but Ele and Enh are missing some points, and especially Enh doesent seem viable for pvp.
Elemental; hmm.. Sure, some nice burts, crits crits crits. But once you get Cheapshot by a rogue, or a warrior got you up close, you can only hope you can nuke their 8-10k hp down faster then they kill you, cause you cant outheal em. Allso, thats the thought if you 41/0/20 or 40/0/21. If your pvp Ele, you'd take Nature's Swiftness, as thats the only lifesaver you got, Besides the pvp trinket.
/Darnaro
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