veth
Grunt
i R evul!
Posts: 18
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Post by veth on Sept 3, 2007 22:11:04 GMT 1
i was just wondering (if this has been mentioned before, feel free to delete the topic) What do you guys consider the best raiding builds? for Daggers/maces/swords etc? -Veth
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Post by Vanur on Sept 3, 2007 22:30:37 GMT 1
Sword, combat.
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Post by roward on Sept 4, 2007 3:01:42 GMT 1
Yes, sword is actually the best raiding build you'll find. Daggers isn't bad at all, nearly the same dps if you can stay behind your target. I don't know about fists, since sword spec procs seem to outdps 5% crits. Hell I even spoke with a rogue who had a fist main hand and a sword off hand and had both specs...1200 dps at Mag, or so he said.
I'd recommend a standard combat build though, with one spec. Sword if you can, rest is also good apart from maces. Try to get some nice +hit rating, but don't do as most of the rogues do, don't gimp yourself with +hit rating blues when you can have some epix with shiteload more Ap and agi, and just a tad less hit rating than the blue.
My 2 cents, Feyt out.
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Draktull
Trainee
I am paladin but you dont know that yet
Posts: 338
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Post by Draktull on Sept 4, 2007 6:03:27 GMT 1
combat sword is best as other tell you, ofc +hit have to be big. around +200 hit is nice for rogues and yes all other put into agility cause AP is nice, but AP gives you only dmg. AGI gives you everything else
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Post by Samathul on Sept 4, 2007 10:40:21 GMT 1
We had a rogue on Gruul, that forgot to put his crappy blue +hit gear on and instead had his epics with +agi/AP and crit. End result was an average hit increase of 191 to 215 (14%) but a total DPS loss of ~120 DPS (28%).
Edit: hit rating on blues ~255 while his epics sported hit rating of 170.
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Draktull
Trainee
I am paladin but you dont know that yet
Posts: 338
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Post by Draktull on Sept 4, 2007 12:27:50 GMT 1
yes i think that +hit will allways outdps anything else. cause rogue need around +280-300 to hit EVERY blow.
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Zianna
Council
Lady of Justice
Never underestimate the power of denial
Posts: 2,047
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Post by Zianna on Sept 4, 2007 12:29:22 GMT 1
Didn’t know you have a rogue too, Draktull A question to you more seasoned raiding rogues: Your opinion on Weapon Expertise, please? Anyone able to supply numbers?
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Post by Samathul on Sept 4, 2007 13:26:20 GMT 1
Your opinion on Weapon Expertise, please? Anyone able to supply numbers? I'm not a rogue, but according to EJ forums, you definitely want to have it as a raiding rogue. "Weapon Skill seems to provide non-linear returns. Namely, getting to within 2 levels of a boss (the first 5 points of weapon skill), seems to provide more benefit than additional points. When the difference between a boss' defense skill (5 * level) and your weapon skill is less than 10, Weapon Skill provides +0.1% to hit per point. Weapon Skill does not seem to affect parry, block or glancing rates. Weapon skill does affect dodge rates. The base miss rate against Level 73 bosses is 9.0% (28% for dual wielding). This is higher than previously expected. "
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Post by Samathul on Sept 4, 2007 14:16:07 GMT 1
Regarding the meaning of +hit to rogues:
Feyt is a prime example of a rogue that lacks +hit. He decimates the damagemeters on trash by a large margin, but drops a lot on the meters once the boss fights start, and people with gear better suited for bosskilling instead of trashkilling start to dominate the charts.
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Post by catham on Sept 4, 2007 16:34:59 GMT 1
Copy paste from EJ: Plus if you are looking for informations about rogue mechanics I propose you to visit probably the best rogue web site in the world (not joking) www.roguespot.com (you can meet i.e. Osiris there).
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Post by roward on Sept 4, 2007 22:49:41 GMT 1
Regarding the meaning of +hit to rogues: Feyt is a prime example of a rogue that lacks +hit. He decimates the damagemeters on trash by a large margin, but drops a lot on the meters once the boss fights start, and people with gear better suited for bosskilling instead of trashkilling start to dominate the charts. And yet I usually end up first when I'm alive As I said, + hit is good, but don't gimp your gear for it. 220, 230 is nice, 250+ is awesome, sure, 308 is capped, aka every single blow lands. Besides I only lack hit rating because of rings, a trinket and the necklace. Rest is pretty much the best I can get in the instances we visit. And no, I'm not putting blues on to gain 10 or 20 hit rating and lose 60 ap and nearly 2 % crit. To answer your question Zi, weapon expertise is a must have for a pve build, yes.
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Post by Samathul on Sept 5, 2007 0:07:15 GMT 1
And yet I usually end up first when I'm alive . We seem to have around 10 people that tops damage meters, if you ask them Currently, if you want to bet your money on who will beat the damagemeters on bosses, put your money on Karvatupsu or Szasstam. They're closely followed by Maff and me. Then there's the middle range, that can produce a surprise top3 ender every now and then. In my current DPS contender list, you hower at the middle range. edit: If you don't want to change a bunch of stuff for more hit, you could at least regem your stuff for hit. That would increase the DPS a bit. Too bad the darn rogue DPS spreadsheet is sucky and I can't enter the stuff that you have on it for a quick "spreadsheetish" way to show how much more DPS you'd gain on bosses with correct gems.
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Post by roward on Sept 5, 2007 1:35:22 GMT 1
And yet I usually end up first when I'm alive . We seem to have around 10 people that tops damage meters, if you ask them Currently, if you want to bet your money on who will beat the damagemeters on bosses, put your money on Karvatupsu or Szasstam. They're closely followed by Maff and me. Then there's the middle range, that can produce a surprise top3 ender every now and then. In my current DPS contender list, you hower at the middle range. edit: If you don't want to change a bunch of stuff for more hit, you could at least regem your stuff for hit. That would increase the DPS a bit. Too bad the darn rogue DPS spreadsheet is sucky and I can't enter the stuff that you have on it for a quick "spreadsheetish" way to show how much more DPS you'd gain on bosses with correct gems. To clarify things, I don't have dps meter myself. I just look at what people link in raid chat or what they whisper me. I hate the mod to be honest, and I kinda dislike the "zomg hardcore dps". Nearly all my gems have hit rating if you check my gear. I won't change anything just because you say so Sama, sorry. I'll change what I see fit for my rogue, unless Whaco leaders tell me to do else. If that happens I'll just leave. I'm raiding speced, I have a decent gear, I produce decent dps output from what people tell me, so I won't be lectured into changing stuff because of some theorycraft. I'm not in Whaco to down bosses all day, to farm for pots all day, to be the best dps people could ever dream for. I think I've already proven to be a worthy member of a nice and friendly non hardcore community, I'd like it to stay that way. And I'm glad all those names would be first on your list, since I'm sure you all work harder than I do to produce all that dps. Every single time number were showed to be, it was different names though. No hard feelings and no harm done! *hugs Sama* EDIT: I'm no stubborn git, and off course I'll take whatever new object (with nearly same stats and more hit rating than my stuff) I'll be able to find in Kara and other raid instances. What I meant is that I won't farm 5 man instances for some blues who will give me something like 1% more damage over a whole raid -Feyt
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Draktull
Trainee
I am paladin but you dont know that yet
Posts: 338
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Post by Draktull on Sept 5, 2007 6:21:02 GMT 1
2 Zi : yes Drak gone to retirement and then i start playing hunter but he stuck on 58-59 lvl cause playing hunter is SOOOOOOOO boring. then i swithced to rogue cause my friends decided to play loladins so we can do stuff togheter but they are now litlle behind me (and also i am playing soo litlle in last time cause i have 3 more important thingies to do (job,college(last year) and trainings) but we shouldnt go in offtopic. weapon expertise is MUST for PvE, also i allways prefer +50 reting up instead of +80-100 AP only cause in long fights you will see difference. also positioning is very important but that is basic knowledge of playing so i pressume everyone here knows it i wont post numbers cause catham did homework so you can see how weapon skilll works. i am litlle doubtfull for this table but what the heck i dont have time to test it myself just wanted to say that +hit owns AP and AGI
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Post by Samathul on Sept 5, 2007 11:44:40 GMT 1
I'm raiding speced, I have a decent gear, I produce decent dps output from what people tell me, so I won't be lectured into changing stuff because of some theorycraft. I'm only trying to help, even if the way I say comes as straight and blunt, don't worry about it What if I would show you the benefits of +hit through WWS statistics? It's pretty detailed, no need to understand any theorycrafting or anything, just comparing a couple of figures. What would you say?
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