Post by Samathul on Jun 2, 2007 6:00:53 GMT 1
More maths! This time done by a mage that does PvE in a fire spec.
Spell crit works in terms of % dps increase, same with spell hit. Spell damage, however, is perceived by most people to be a fixed increase of damage, so they feel the need to convert it to a percentage. This can be proven to be wrong!
Will we compare them in terms of % dps increase, or in terms of fixed damage increase? In the OP the first choice was made in some places, but others it was about static increase. Let's do our calcs with percentage increase in mind.
Average damage should be T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D).
T is the % increase from talents, and other outside factors like debuffs (note that many talents go to spell BASE damage)
H is your hit chance, capped at 0.16 ofc
C is yout crit chance
B is base spell damage
D is your +spell damage
c is your casting spell's coefficient.
If we increase each one stat each time by +n, but considering the others static how much increase in damage is it each time?
For +n hit it is T*(0.83+H+n)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D) / T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D) = (0.83+H+n)/(0.83+H)
For +n crit it is T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*(C+n)+1)*(B+c*D) / T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D) = (1.1*(C+n)+1) / (1.1*C+1)
It can be clearly seen that it doesn't include T, the increase from talents and outside factors. Why? Because when we are allready talking about 1000dps, that allready includes those factors, so we don't want to include them again.
However, for +n dmg it is T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*(D+n)) / T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D) = (B+c*(D+n))/(B+c*D)
Voila! Once again no T, no C, no H! If you want to receive a 1% increase in dps through spell damage, then once again you don't need to take talents, crits, hits and outside factors in mind because they are allready in the game when we are allready talking about a given amount of dps!
If we wanted to calculate our stuff based on static damage increase, then we would have to keep crits, hits and outside factors in mind ALL the time, because spell damage vs. crit vs. hit ALL improve each other. If the calculations are done multiplicatively though, they are actually easier.
So lets convert those formulas to a real world example. Let's take a fire mage with 900 spelldamage, 100 hit rating, and 30% to crit with fire.
+50 spell damage would mean (B+c*(D+n))/(B+c*D) = (902.5+1.035*(900+50)) / (902.5+1.035*900) = 1885.75 / 1834 = 1.0282 which is 2.82% more DPS.
+50 spell crit rating would translate to 2.26244 more crit chance (1.1*(C+n)+1) / (1.1*C+1) = (1.1*(0.3+0.0226244)+1) / (1.1*(0.3)+1) = 1.35488684 / 1.33 = 1.0187 which is 1.87% more DPS.
+50 spell hit rating is 3.96825 more hit chance on top of the 7,93651 hit chance the mage allready has (0.83+H+n)/(0.83+H) = (0,83 + 0,0793651 + 0,0396825)/(0,83+0,0793651) = 0,9490476/0,9093651 = 1,0436 meaning a whoping 4,36% more increase in DPS!
Those calculations could be easily adjusted by anyone for taking item budget modifiers in mind, but i think it's not needed. There is no shadow of doubt for me at least that spell hit > spell damage > spell crit for raiding!
All these calcs of course don't include any trinkets, procs, et c. Please point out any mistakes, I'm sure I will have done many, since I haven't slept since yesterday.
What struck me is that the consencus amongst mages seem to have changed from the one roll system to a two roll system, where crits can miss.
Also, please do note that a single +crit % is worth of 22.1 crit rating, while a single +hit % is worth of only 12.6 hit rating. You'll increase your DPS more with investing on +hit while leaving more room for other stats, like int, stamina and +damage!
Of course, this only applies to PvE raiding.
Spell crit works in terms of % dps increase, same with spell hit. Spell damage, however, is perceived by most people to be a fixed increase of damage, so they feel the need to convert it to a percentage. This can be proven to be wrong!
Will we compare them in terms of % dps increase, or in terms of fixed damage increase? In the OP the first choice was made in some places, but others it was about static increase. Let's do our calcs with percentage increase in mind.
Average damage should be T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D).
T is the % increase from talents, and other outside factors like debuffs (note that many talents go to spell BASE damage)
H is your hit chance, capped at 0.16 ofc
C is yout crit chance
B is base spell damage
D is your +spell damage
c is your casting spell's coefficient.
If we increase each one stat each time by +n, but considering the others static how much increase in damage is it each time?
For +n hit it is T*(0.83+H+n)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D) / T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D) = (0.83+H+n)/(0.83+H)
For +n crit it is T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*(C+n)+1)*(B+c*D) / T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D) = (1.1*(C+n)+1) / (1.1*C+1)
It can be clearly seen that it doesn't include T, the increase from talents and outside factors. Why? Because when we are allready talking about 1000dps, that allready includes those factors, so we don't want to include them again.
However, for +n dmg it is T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*(D+n)) / T*(0.83+H)*(1.1*C+1)*(B+c*D) = (B+c*(D+n))/(B+c*D)
Voila! Once again no T, no C, no H! If you want to receive a 1% increase in dps through spell damage, then once again you don't need to take talents, crits, hits and outside factors in mind because they are allready in the game when we are allready talking about a given amount of dps!
If we wanted to calculate our stuff based on static damage increase, then we would have to keep crits, hits and outside factors in mind ALL the time, because spell damage vs. crit vs. hit ALL improve each other. If the calculations are done multiplicatively though, they are actually easier.
So lets convert those formulas to a real world example. Let's take a fire mage with 900 spelldamage, 100 hit rating, and 30% to crit with fire.
+50 spell damage would mean (B+c*(D+n))/(B+c*D) = (902.5+1.035*(900+50)) / (902.5+1.035*900) = 1885.75 / 1834 = 1.0282 which is 2.82% more DPS.
+50 spell crit rating would translate to 2.26244 more crit chance (1.1*(C+n)+1) / (1.1*C+1) = (1.1*(0.3+0.0226244)+1) / (1.1*(0.3)+1) = 1.35488684 / 1.33 = 1.0187 which is 1.87% more DPS.
+50 spell hit rating is 3.96825 more hit chance on top of the 7,93651 hit chance the mage allready has (0.83+H+n)/(0.83+H) = (0,83 + 0,0793651 + 0,0396825)/(0,83+0,0793651) = 0,9490476/0,9093651 = 1,0436 meaning a whoping 4,36% more increase in DPS!
Those calculations could be easily adjusted by anyone for taking item budget modifiers in mind, but i think it's not needed. There is no shadow of doubt for me at least that spell hit > spell damage > spell crit for raiding!
All these calcs of course don't include any trinkets, procs, et c. Please point out any mistakes, I'm sure I will have done many, since I haven't slept since yesterday.
What struck me is that the consencus amongst mages seem to have changed from the one roll system to a two roll system, where crits can miss.
Also, please do note that a single +crit % is worth of 22.1 crit rating, while a single +hit % is worth of only 12.6 hit rating. You'll increase your DPS more with investing on +hit while leaving more room for other stats, like int, stamina and +damage!
Of course, this only applies to PvE raiding.
