chromaggus Guide

[Belfalas]

nothing on us hunters tranq job we rock

[Zianna]

Ah! In that case I misunderstood you. Yes, in theory it is possible to set preferences in CTRA for specific debuffs. Only problem being CT decursive has been bugged for months, specifically the preference bit >.< Also, I'm not sure I agree it should be used in this fight. Aside from mages, we are all able to remove 2 types, right? With say 2 from each of all 4 classes doing this, we spread out the mana abuse some and leave room for backup situations.

Reminding me: Tardon I wasn't complaining at mages in my initial post, I was reminding since I forgot to mention mage decursing at all last night. Since the healing classes already know because they read the healing strategy (>_>), I saw no reason to mention them too.

[skrallik]

but.. but.. we have only faced him twice... *shrug*

What about farming for those anti-venom thingies from AD reputaion.. people could cure their own poisons..... or are they too hard to farm for?

aaaanyway.. we have faced him twice.. got massacred the first time, did beter the second time..

I think we learned a lot more the second time as we lasted a lot longer and were able to see more of how the fight progresses..

We'll just step up a notch the way whaco normally do and kill him

[Draktull]

zi yes i meant that. so it's bugged darn.
i suggested that only cause i think that maybe not in first 40-50% but in 2nd end will be hard to keep mana if we decurse everyting we see.

[yavimaya]

As far as dps and debuffs go. Theoretically they should only really have about 20/25secs out of line of sight of the decurses (on a non-timelapse chrommie). They have to duck for cover every 30 secs, and it's worth (certainly for melee dps), moving as soon as you get the 20sec warning (when we get that announced to raid for next attempt, as Grul/Oomo mentioned) because if you get hit by a blue afflication, the movement speed reduction can see you fail to get out of LoS for the breath. This should hopefully avoid any problems with dps stacking up more than 3 afflictions. (timelapse obviously requires more focus on that front).

In principle, I would have thought that Draktull's post makes sense, in that each class should have a "preferred" cleansing. For example, since mages can only do decursing (plus they have mana shards and evocation for a tad more mana that other classes), it would be a waste for druids to blow all their mana on decursing whilst the mages are sitting idle. Essentially, using druids as an example, the thought process (excluding healing) should be along the lines of:
10 Cure poison
20 What, no more poison?
30 Remove curse then!
40 What, all curses removed?
50 Goto 10.

(yes, that is infact awesome 1337 programming skillz!)

This would mean that the curses are still removed as quickly as possible, but the burden is on the mages for that, then druids help out only once all the poison's are dealt with. This then let's shaman concentrate primarily on diseases because the druids are dealing with most of the poison etc. etc. etc. I expect this is probably very similar to what already happens or potentially is just completely inappropriate if for example, all of the previous affliction is ALWAYS removed before the next affliction hits, but not having played a decurser on this fight yet, I can't be sure.

Am I correct in thinking that when the affliction comes it hits everyone simultaneously, rather than just hitting random people at random rates? (The wowwiki article isn't 100% clear on that, it just says it hits everyone in the zone, regardless of LoS).

Also, the fight itself sounds as though it should be pretty quick. Accordingly to the wowwiki article it says that on a timelapse chrommie, he should be dead before the 5th timelapse (i.e. total fight duration 5mins). Admittedly, timelapse attempts will be quicker than non-timelapse as dps can be in sight of chrommie and be damaging him for upto 80 seconds at a time (only having to duck away for every other breath). However, it still suggests the fight isn't that long.

I think once we resolve the vulnerability issue (ctraid announcing), the dps will be a lot higher and that 83% will fall a lot quicker. Also, with the ctraid breath announces, we should have fewer people hit by the breaths and hence less mana needed to keep DPS alive (and fewer dps deaths) and all healer mana can go on the MT and decursing/curing poison etc.


T/Y

edit: Just read Zi's post that she put up whilst I was writing mine. I forgot that ctraid doesn't let you bind separate keys to separate decurses. (so you can't have button "y" for decurse and "u" for cure poison, it only recognises you want to remove a debuff). And yeah, ctraid's debuff thing is definitely crappy!

[mard]

2nd try was better simply becouse we didnt get time lapse. with time lapse this try would be similiar to 1st i suppose

[yavimaya]

mard said:

2nd try was better simply becouse we didnt get time lapse. with time lapse this try would be similiar to 1st i suppose

The first time was indeed poor because we weren't ready for timelapse. This time we were. Had we have got it, I am very confident that we would have done better than our timelapse attempt last week.

[Tardon]

I agree. The first attempt where we got timelapse went crappy because none of us knew what to do with timelapse.

And since CTRA decursing is poo, how about we take a look at Decursive?

[Zianna]

One thing I need to point out: As I read your posts, it seems to me you're saying some can decurse etc and some can whack/heal/Moo?.

According to felbane (and to my own accounts), everyone have to whack it at all times. If you did not see it or do not believe me, do the math.

- At least 2/3 of the raid is hit by every single breath at this point.
- All decursing etc. has world cd of 1 sec.
- We are 40 people.
- Breaths hit every 30 seconds (right?)
- People do not always (for whatever reason) move out of breath range and into Decursing LoS.

With CT decursive being bugged and so not prioritising as asked, there is no way of controlling what or who to do first, meaning in many cases 25 people take 50 seconds at best to cleanse (with range/LoS).

Either the people that were assigned to this job was completely ignoring orders or there is just more to it. End result=we never ever had raid debuff free Sunday or Wednesday.

[shinnjin]

One thing that we can do is get Jungle Remedy wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=2633 pots.
It's easily farmable for everyone in the raid and the droprate is pretty decent. I grind some from time to time to get rid of the pesky disease that the ghoulds in EPL cast on you (-10% hit, yay...)

[skrallik]

I can see your point there Zi, and I am not a healer.. in fact.. I cant even heal myself while being a druid..

BUT..

Not much sence IMO in doing the Maths as you posted above, given that you are factoring in an issue that the rest of the raid needs to get better at. That is, moving out of way of the breaths.

Surely the healing/decursing tactics should be calculated with the assumption that we will get better each time at moving out of los, along with the increased learning factor by decursers and healers alike.. thereby reducing the time it take to decurse those fewer people that need to be decursed in the first place...

??

[yavimaya]

zianna said:

One thing I need to point out: As I read your posts, it seems to me you're saying some can decurse etc and some can whack/heal/Moo?.

According to felbane (and to my own accounts), everyone have to whack it at all times. If you did not see it or do not believe me, do the math.

- At least 2/3 of the raid is hit by every single breath at this point.
- All decursing etc. has world cd of 1 sec.
- We are 40 people.
- Breaths hit every 30 seconds (right?)
- People do not always (for whatever reason) move out of breath range and into Decursing LoS.

With CT decursive being bugged and so not prioritising as asked, there is no way of controlling what or who to do first, meaning in many cases 25 people take 50 seconds at best to cleanse (with range/LoS).

Either the people that were assigned to this job was completely ignoring orders or there is just more to it. End result=we never ever had raid debuff free Sunday or Wednesday.

Zianna, re-reading every post in this thread, I can't see a single post that suggests that we can just have people on whacking/healing/moo'ing duty only.

With regards to my post, my point was that I thought giving classes priority debuffing can maximise the efficiency of our mana pools, not that half the droods can go oomkin and moonfire spam (pew pew pew). All of that class still needs to decurse/cure/dispel etc.

I think we're also getting a bit confused between the breaths and the afflictions (I know Skrallik is from his post and I'm also far from certain about the mechanics of the affliction!).

The breaths come in 30second intervals and are avoidable by everyone except the main tank and possibly unlucky hunters(?) and basically all the breaths do are lots of damage (except timelapse obviously).

The afflictions can't be avoided by LoS so these hitting the raid, will not change as we improve.
What I don't know is whether the afflictions are regular, i.e. in a one minute fight you get:
00.05 : Blue affliction
00.10 : Green
00.15 : Red
00.20 : bronze
00.25 : Black
00:30 : Breath 1
00.35: Blue (exactly 30 seconds after the previous round)
00.40 : Green
00.45 : Red
00.50 : bronze
00.55 : Black
01.00 : Breath 2

I don't know whether the afflictions are this predictable. In fact, if they are, then that's probably an advantage.

[Tardon]

If they are indeed that predictable, it would at least be an advantage to mages. Since we could decurse madly, then know we had about 20 seconds to dps, then decurse madly, rinse and repeat, etc.

[skrallik]

Further discussion with Yavi regarding my post..

yes there was some confusion, in that I was under the impression that bothe breath and affliction were avoidable when out of los..

This however is not my point.. Just saying that like Razorgore, this fight requires ALL OF US to know this fight and do our bit well. In that, the healers shuold not have to factor in helping those who dont pay attention enough to get out of the way of the breath..

More importantly... Whaco's learning curve has always been very steep and I am confident that we will do better and better very quickly. This itself will likely cause more changes/questions to be sounded as we go along.. so.. *shrug* we have only faced him a couple of times... once easy mode, once hard mode.. our tactics will get sharper each time we face him.

*reminds himself to bring his own bandages next time*

[Zianna]

Yavi, my main concern is what Draktull is suggesting - which I very much read as minimising the assigned de-whatnots and letting more of the healing classes focus on healing - as well as what I saw in our last visit there.

I had 5 healers assigned to only curing and staring at all bars like I was, having all debuff icons enabled, I can say 99% sure that the people I had asked to do this were not all doing it. Therefore, when I hear Draktull suggest that we might not need to have that many assigned to it, I sound all alarms.

Unfortunately, this was a problem that seemed to follow us the entire raid. It seemed very clear to me that some people simply didn't pay attention to orders/assignments or just didn't care. I don't know why this is and tbh I don't care much, but I do hope those people read this and realise that it was a horrible idea. Please, stop wasting our time.

Back on topic, dps being possitioned wrong can of course explain this to some extent, but since I was on the curing team myself, I can say for sure that only melee dps were out of LOS. *shrugs*

Anyhow, like Tardy said, it's safe to conclude that this fight is not that easy (big surprise ) and next time, we'll do better.