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Post by Samathul on Jul 30, 2006 10:57:54 GMT 1
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Inniscor
Fallen
the One-Winged Angel
Posts: 28
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Post by Inniscor on Jul 30, 2006 13:46:45 GMT 1
Sounds obvious enough...
And seeing how the higher CoR lowers it's defense more and increasing it's AP less, I should really buy the higher ranks now.. (still on rank 1, mainly use it to stop mobs from fleeing, for CoR also immunes the target to Flee, Fear and Horror effects)
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Grul
Fallen
Fallen
Posts: 777
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Post by Grul on Jul 30, 2006 16:25:28 GMT 1
Depends where it's used. On MC trash fights, sure, go ahead and use it, it will help the zerg kill it quicker.
On mobs/bosses where tanks occasionally die, it should never be used (since a tank death will slow things down way more than the raid doing a bit more DPS).
Dangerous mobs include everything in BWL, Golemagg, Destroyers in MC (all those do huge spike damage).
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Post by Samathul on Jul 30, 2006 16:38:54 GMT 1
Grul, can you define the "On mobs/bosses where tanks occasionally die, it should never be used" part?
A 6.4DPS increase on boss damage means 3840 more damage in a 10 minute fight. 3840 damage is 4 flash heals and it is spread over that 10 minutes. It's a drop in the DPS sea coming from the boss mob and never leads to a tank loosing his/her life.
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Post by Slyvar on Jul 30, 2006 17:06:48 GMT 1
Sama,
This has been an often held debate held in the lock channel. It breaks down like this:
On mobs where they dont do BIG spikes of damage at once it's fine to be used. And of course on mobs that dont do melee damage at all.
However, where it's dangerous is in mobs that already do massive damage in just a few hits, or where a crit already brings a tank down to almost dead. Sometimes tanks survive by a margin of 100 hp or so when a mob does a 4k crit. The extra attack power from CoR can lead to anything between 40-200 extra damage. It doesn't sound a lot, but on fights where the tanks hold on by a thread, it could make the difference.
The raid isn't short of DPS by any means, so there's no real need to raise it. On Vael for instance, we dont die because the raid doesn't have enough DPS, but because tanks get out of order, or a tank dies before their time. So there's really no point in risking more damage in on the tanks, when the DPS isn't the reason we dont do certain fights. Of course, if there was a fight where we need to squeeze out that little bit extra then sure.
Also not sure I like all the assumptions that calculation make - it focuses too much on generalisations, and not enough on specifics. It's all based on "DPS" when it's spike damage that is the bigger problem.
One option I have considered in the past is using both CoR AND CoW to off set the extra attack power on the mob. But given the fact you sacrifice debuff slots for it, I'm not convinced it's worth it.
Sly
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Grul
Fallen
Fallen
Posts: 777
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Post by Grul on Jul 31, 2006 8:48:44 GMT 1
Yep, what Slyvar said basically.
Tanks usually die to big damage spikes (a crit followed by a crushing blow for example), which is why tanks value stamina so highly. Even in MC, there have been plenty of occasions where Grul has gone down to <100 health and survived.
Most mobs don't do this, and are "trash", but on the ones that do massive spike physical damage, tanks will be piling on ever single last bit of damage reduction gear they cna to survive, and it seems a shame to negate this just to increase rad DPS a bit.
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Post by Samathul on Jul 31, 2006 9:45:29 GMT 1
Just don't gimp your stats over one stat too much. Healers love when mobs die as fast as they can. They value a tank who doesn't take damage spikes equally aswell as a tank who has a high damage migitation. Dumping armor/dodge/parry/defence for high stamina is just a healer manadrain in the long run.
It's a fine balance. I personally wont complain if we can get the raid DPS up and the tank retains his 315 defence (or whatever the highest defence rating for minimum damage spikage is). Raid DPS is as important stat as any other tanking stat is :]
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