For Rogues

[bugrum]

Ok, I been looking at rogues patch notes and talents and thinking and re-thinking on my spec - when an idea sprang to my mind.

Hemmoraghe is a nice ability, it boosts dps of all melee. Why not have 1 rogue with it so the others get that boost?

I think (I suck at calculations) that it's a PvP ability? So if anyone wants to take it from the pvp sector say so. I'd be very willing to take it to boost the raid dps and lowering my own.

Would be a bit wasted (?) if 2 have it so let's discuss and if someone is taking it just the same if others take it or not please say so we don't overlap each other and try to boost everyone's DPS to the max as we need it in our raids.

Just my 3 cents.

Buggierumdumdum.

Edit and P.S - This is not an "YOU GO SPEC TO XX/XX/XX" thread, just a suggestion which i'm willing to re-spec for it myself. Saying this because I know some of our rogues like PvP and gear/spec for it and damage, as I said, wouldn't like to go for it if there's already someone with it.

Edit 2: If it was no one who wanted to go for it i'd go for www.wowhead.com/?talent=yheboxZGcZVrxohuoo

I think. - Any other spec suggestions?

Edit 3: If not I think this will be my spec:
www.wowhead.com/?talent=jheboEzVoGcVZVb

[Slitty]

The thing with hemo is, the charges get eaten incredibily fast, so the boost is rather small. I had hemo in our raids for a while anyway, come patch 1.12 i'll spec a dagger buid - purely as I lack any other type of weapons

[Cittinq]

Yesterday in the raid to RAQ, Bradjinvul put hemo on all the mobs. I have no idea how much more damage it caused. But its nice to have a hemo rogue, as it adds to the overal damage of the raid.

[bradjinvul]

thanks cittinq fot that nice comment and yes i ager tottaly it good if one of us has hemo .but like sliitty points out its a wast ,,,hopefully am gona start to sign up for all the raid with you great pepel, so no one will need too respec btw thanks for all you hellp in RAQ

[Slitty]

Well, not really a waste anyway, as long as we are free to spec whatever we want (and we are), just choose a spec that you like best.

[mard]

the thruth is, additional dmg from hemo wont increase raid dps as much as having another rogue specced for combat. not. even. close. period.

its +7 dmg per hit, and you have 30 charges to go - 210 dmg AT BEST - considering all the charges will be used (30 of them) before applying another hemo - which is almost never the case. it doesnt add up - applying another hemo will simply reset all the remaining charges.

hemo is pvp spec, pure pvp spec actually. its all about stunlocking - which is useless in raids (with very few exceptions like stunlocking sartura's adds or sartura herself - but we've never met her so far and i dont think we will in near future).

good thing with whaco is that there's no forcing people into speccing to raid dmg builds - neither of us is specced for raiding actually - bugrum is closest to that with his 31/20 build - or something similiar. im not going to tell anyone how he should play his toon, but one thing is obvious - speccing hemo is gimping in terms of raiding.

if someone's really going for it - better get yourself pair of nice swords (the slower the better since hemo wasnt normalised so far) - hemos dmg is laughable with daggers.

edit : typos ... yeah

[bugrum]

Say we're 6 rogues, and 5 Warriors meleeing, that have an average 2.3 speed on each hit (averaging everyone).

11 people do 22 hits in 4.6 seconds, so 30 hits in like 5 seconds.
If the rogue does hemo at 5 seconds or more (normal I guess - I saw hemo running out very fast on mobs in MC and BWL) that's 7 damage * 30 / 5 seconds. 40 DPS. Dun think that speccing Combat from subtelty will increase your dps by that much. Dunno, never been subtelty and i'm in no way forcing anyone how to spec or how he should play his toon - just trying to see if anyone's going to be.

[mard]

subtelty doesnt have any dps increasing talents atm (cept for opportunity - but it's a must have anyway and hemo doesnt benefit from this ) - in 1.12 it will get serrated blades (-300 armor on target) and maybe deadliness, but this one is very deep down the tree.

combat on the other hand has precision, dual wield spec, weapon spec, blade flurry, if swords adrenaline rush and in 1.12 it will get weapon expertise (which you can get now by equiping aged core leather gauntlets + mugger belt). it really makes a difference.

i mean if someone really wants to get hemo then sure, go for it - but mind that having more than one hemo rogue in raid is a waste.

[Slitty]

bugrum said:

Say we're 6 rogues, and 5 Warriors meleeing, that have an average 2.3 speed on each hit (averaging everyone).

11 people do 22 hits in 4.6 seconds, so 30 hits in like 5 seconds.
If the rogue does hemo at 5 seconds or more (normal I guess - I saw hemo running out very fast on mobs in MC and BWL) that's 7 damage * 30 / 5 seconds. 40 DPS. Dun think that speccing Combat from subtelty will increase your dps by that much. Dunno, never been subtelty and i'm in no way forcing anyone how to spec or how he should play his toon - just trying to see if anyone's going to be.

ahh, pure theorycratf *runs away in panic*

I'm gonna put it like this - I'll be speccing for pvp, nothing less. (as in I'll spec something purely pvp after some testing and blowing 200-300g on respecs )

[Felbane]

imo I'd agree with slit. the increased damage from the combat build is worth more than the gain from hemo, especially with the +weapon skill talents in 1.12 (roughly a 10% damage increase in boss fights just from those 5 weaponskill. (if I'm right, I might be way off ))

[mard]

0 weapon skill = 40% for glancing blow, 30%dmg reduction
5 ws = 40% glancing, 15% dmg reduction
10ws = 40% glancing, 0% dmg reduction

afair

[Felbane]

ah, then its 6% increase, still noteworthy.