Post by Tardon on Sept 21, 2007 14:52:40 GMT 1
I got Rati to post this for me on the mage forums, but though I'd give a little repost here:
Now, the deal here is to make a deep firebuild more viable in PvP, without making its damage overpowered in PvE. The way to do this is actually quite simple, since you’ll just buff spells that are primarily not used in PvE.
Some suggestions may be over the edge, overpowered, or not good. These are just random thoughts I have on the subject:
Dragons Breath: Make the disorient last 1½ seconds longer, and make it affected by Flame Throwing (making its range and cone bigger). This is a spell not used a lot in raiding (if at all), but this boost would make it a lot better in PvP, making you able to unload more damage after it.
You could also add a Daze effect to Dragons Breath, after the disorient wore off, or a debuff that would slow casting.
Blastwave: Make the daze effect last longer, make it do more damage, and possible add a ½ second disorient (or stun) to it. That way it can be used as a spell interrupt. Again, a spell that’s not used much in raiding.
Combustion: Make combustion start at 20 or 30% (or even 40%) increased chance (but obviously still only give you 3 crits), instead of 0. This wont affect raid DPS at all, but would be a great boost in PvP since the damage would be more reliable when you get it, and give you higher burst damage, which again wont affect PvE much, but would be great in PvP.
Blazing Speed: Again, a talent that doesn’t have a huge raid usage. Make it give you a ½ second (or 1 second) immunity to movement impairing effects, which would prevent BS from procing and then right after being stunned/dazed/whatever right after.
Molten Armor: A frequently used raid talent, but I’m not buffing its raid usage. I suggest making the damage done by MA higher, and making it affect ranged attacks as well. Another thing might be to LOWER the damage done by MA, and then also making it proc from DoT’s (mainly hurting warlocks and priests), which would be evil against the dot classes which we have so many problems with. (for instance, if a dot ticks 6 times, that would inflict 600 damage on the caster, which would be very nice, and still not be “defencive”, but an “aggressive” thing, fitting firemages).
Another fix could be to make Molten Armor reduce the magical damage you take, which would help (again) versus Warlocks/Priests. This would not so much help living longer, but perhaps make warlocks and priests attack another person as the primary target, which is good for a firemage, due to the lack of defences.
If need be, these changes could be fit in under the talent Improved Fire Ward.
Playing with Fire: You could possibly lower the %damage taken of this talent. Or keep it the same, but change it to physical damage instead, since we primarily have problems with caster classes.
Empowered Fireball: You could make this talent give extra damage to Scorch as well, since Scorch is a very frequently used spell for a PvP firemage. (This does, however, have a chance of adding to much DPS in a raid for this spell, since it has very good DpM).
Impact: Make the proc chance higher, to say, 15% or 20% (well ok, 20% might be overdoing it).
Improved Scorch: Make Dragons Breath and Blastwave add a simular damage debuff as Scorch. This would hardly be noticable in PvE, but would be a nice damage boost in PvP.
Pyroblast: Add a note in a deep fire talent (deep enough that you can’t get Arcane Power with it) that greatly increases the damage done by Pyroblast. Currently the damage by pyroblast is to close to that of fireball (especially considering its huge casting time), that it is extremely rarely used. A deep fire talent (one that is already being used by many) that would increase the damage from pyroblast by 10 or 20% (or possibly even more, due to its huuuuuge casting time) would be a great boost. Basicly, Pyroblast should have only slightly lower DPS (say, 100DPS) than fireball, but also have a much worse DpM. That way there is no chance it would be used as a raid spell, but its PvP usage would increase.
NEW TALENT: You could possibly add in the same talent that some warlocks have, that would make you immune to Fire and Shadow spells, for a short amount of time (though I’d say lower proc chance than the warlock equivalent). This would serve great if the firemage doesn’t have Iceblock to get rid of dots, and would only help against Warlocks and SPriests, which firemages already have a very hard time with.
This could either be a new talent, or a function added into one of the current talents.
NEW TALENT: A talent that increases the healthpoints of the mage. This could either be a static thing (for instance always increases the mages health by 10%), it could be a stat tied to other stats (for instance, for each intellect you have, your health is increased by 3), or it could be an activated effect (for instance, Increases your mages healthpoints by 30%, lasts 30 seconds, 2 minute cooldown).
This could either be a new talent, or a function added into one of the current talents.
Iceblock: Move Iceblock one tier down, so mages in deep other tree’s can still have this talent, which many consider crucial for PvP (and replace Iceblock with Coldsnap on a reduced cooldown (NOTE: I would not recommend replacing Iceblock with Shatter, since shatter is the key to hybrid (especially elemental) builds)), this would greatly add to the viability of the fire tree, and possibly be a complete fix just in itself.
Another fix to this, would be to move Combustion and Dragons Breath around (and subsequently buffing combustion... maybe make it give 4 or 5 crits instead). That way, fire mages could still have Dragons Breath (which is dead crucial to any pvp’ing firemage, without it, not much point in the fire tree (that’s my oppinion of course)) and still get Iceblock, without moving Iceblock around.
General ideas for PvP: Personally I feel Mana Gem needs a huge buff, no matter what class. Compared to Healthstones, Mana Gem is pathetic. Hell, even without compare, Mana Gem is pathetic. It can’t be traded, so there is no worries that suddenly the entire raid will have tons of mana, either. But it needs mad buffing. It could easily give 3k mana, without being overpowered.
Arcane Intelect needs mad buffing too. Yes, this could be a problem in raids, but in any solo play, or pvp, what Arcane Intelect adds is pathetic. Make it give at least 20 intelect more.
As I said, these are just my ideas, and you would note that in most cases I don’t give a concrete suggestion on how much each spell should be buffed in damage/%. Adding my suggestions to every spell might also be overdoing it.
But fire is in serious need of buffing when it comes to PvP, especially compared to the Frost tree (and also the lack of burst compared to Arcane).
When I arena with a deep Frost build, me and my partner (a mage) easily get to around a 1660 rating. When we both go Fire (which we enjoy more), we instantly drop to around 1500 rating. That in itself shows something is lacking.
And the most important things about these buffs, would be that they don’t increase your raid DPS, so in those circumstances, fire would stay the same, and not suddenly overwelm everyone. But in terms of PvP, fire would have gained a lot of utility and survivability.
Also not that the changes would primairly (but not solely) hurt caster classes, so mages would suddenly start to rock warriors, rogues and paladins utterly more than we already are.
I’d love to hear some input in this, and hopefully, a little blue poke.
Now, the deal here is to make a deep firebuild more viable in PvP, without making its damage overpowered in PvE. The way to do this is actually quite simple, since you’ll just buff spells that are primarily not used in PvE.
Some suggestions may be over the edge, overpowered, or not good. These are just random thoughts I have on the subject:
Dragons Breath: Make the disorient last 1½ seconds longer, and make it affected by Flame Throwing (making its range and cone bigger). This is a spell not used a lot in raiding (if at all), but this boost would make it a lot better in PvP, making you able to unload more damage after it.
You could also add a Daze effect to Dragons Breath, after the disorient wore off, or a debuff that would slow casting.
Blastwave: Make the daze effect last longer, make it do more damage, and possible add a ½ second disorient (or stun) to it. That way it can be used as a spell interrupt. Again, a spell that’s not used much in raiding.
Combustion: Make combustion start at 20 or 30% (or even 40%) increased chance (but obviously still only give you 3 crits), instead of 0. This wont affect raid DPS at all, but would be a great boost in PvP since the damage would be more reliable when you get it, and give you higher burst damage, which again wont affect PvE much, but would be great in PvP.
Blazing Speed: Again, a talent that doesn’t have a huge raid usage. Make it give you a ½ second (or 1 second) immunity to movement impairing effects, which would prevent BS from procing and then right after being stunned/dazed/whatever right after.
Molten Armor: A frequently used raid talent, but I’m not buffing its raid usage. I suggest making the damage done by MA higher, and making it affect ranged attacks as well. Another thing might be to LOWER the damage done by MA, and then also making it proc from DoT’s (mainly hurting warlocks and priests), which would be evil against the dot classes which we have so many problems with. (for instance, if a dot ticks 6 times, that would inflict 600 damage on the caster, which would be very nice, and still not be “defencive”, but an “aggressive” thing, fitting firemages).
Another fix could be to make Molten Armor reduce the magical damage you take, which would help (again) versus Warlocks/Priests. This would not so much help living longer, but perhaps make warlocks and priests attack another person as the primary target, which is good for a firemage, due to the lack of defences.
If need be, these changes could be fit in under the talent Improved Fire Ward.
Playing with Fire: You could possibly lower the %damage taken of this talent. Or keep it the same, but change it to physical damage instead, since we primarily have problems with caster classes.
Empowered Fireball: You could make this talent give extra damage to Scorch as well, since Scorch is a very frequently used spell for a PvP firemage. (This does, however, have a chance of adding to much DPS in a raid for this spell, since it has very good DpM).
Impact: Make the proc chance higher, to say, 15% or 20% (well ok, 20% might be overdoing it).
Improved Scorch: Make Dragons Breath and Blastwave add a simular damage debuff as Scorch. This would hardly be noticable in PvE, but would be a nice damage boost in PvP.
Pyroblast: Add a note in a deep fire talent (deep enough that you can’t get Arcane Power with it) that greatly increases the damage done by Pyroblast. Currently the damage by pyroblast is to close to that of fireball (especially considering its huge casting time), that it is extremely rarely used. A deep fire talent (one that is already being used by many) that would increase the damage from pyroblast by 10 or 20% (or possibly even more, due to its huuuuuge casting time) would be a great boost. Basicly, Pyroblast should have only slightly lower DPS (say, 100DPS) than fireball, but also have a much worse DpM. That way there is no chance it would be used as a raid spell, but its PvP usage would increase.
NEW TALENT: You could possibly add in the same talent that some warlocks have, that would make you immune to Fire and Shadow spells, for a short amount of time (though I’d say lower proc chance than the warlock equivalent). This would serve great if the firemage doesn’t have Iceblock to get rid of dots, and would only help against Warlocks and SPriests, which firemages already have a very hard time with.
This could either be a new talent, or a function added into one of the current talents.
NEW TALENT: A talent that increases the healthpoints of the mage. This could either be a static thing (for instance always increases the mages health by 10%), it could be a stat tied to other stats (for instance, for each intellect you have, your health is increased by 3), or it could be an activated effect (for instance, Increases your mages healthpoints by 30%, lasts 30 seconds, 2 minute cooldown).
This could either be a new talent, or a function added into one of the current talents.
Iceblock: Move Iceblock one tier down, so mages in deep other tree’s can still have this talent, which many consider crucial for PvP (and replace Iceblock with Coldsnap on a reduced cooldown (NOTE: I would not recommend replacing Iceblock with Shatter, since shatter is the key to hybrid (especially elemental) builds)), this would greatly add to the viability of the fire tree, and possibly be a complete fix just in itself.
Another fix to this, would be to move Combustion and Dragons Breath around (and subsequently buffing combustion... maybe make it give 4 or 5 crits instead). That way, fire mages could still have Dragons Breath (which is dead crucial to any pvp’ing firemage, without it, not much point in the fire tree (that’s my oppinion of course)) and still get Iceblock, without moving Iceblock around.
General ideas for PvP: Personally I feel Mana Gem needs a huge buff, no matter what class. Compared to Healthstones, Mana Gem is pathetic. Hell, even without compare, Mana Gem is pathetic. It can’t be traded, so there is no worries that suddenly the entire raid will have tons of mana, either. But it needs mad buffing. It could easily give 3k mana, without being overpowered.
Arcane Intelect needs mad buffing too. Yes, this could be a problem in raids, but in any solo play, or pvp, what Arcane Intelect adds is pathetic. Make it give at least 20 intelect more.
As I said, these are just my ideas, and you would note that in most cases I don’t give a concrete suggestion on how much each spell should be buffed in damage/%. Adding my suggestions to every spell might also be overdoing it.
But fire is in serious need of buffing when it comes to PvP, especially compared to the Frost tree (and also the lack of burst compared to Arcane).
When I arena with a deep Frost build, me and my partner (a mage) easily get to around a 1660 rating. When we both go Fire (which we enjoy more), we instantly drop to around 1500 rating. That in itself shows something is lacking.
And the most important things about these buffs, would be that they don’t increase your raid DPS, so in those circumstances, fire would stay the same, and not suddenly overwelm everyone. But in terms of PvP, fire would have gained a lot of utility and survivability.
Also not that the changes would primairly (but not solely) hurt caster classes, so mages would suddenly start to rock warriors, rogues and paladins utterly more than we already are.
I’d love to hear some input in this, and hopefully, a little blue poke.
