Draktull
Trainee
I am paladin but you dont know that yet
Posts: 338
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Post by Draktull on Sept 21, 2006 10:53:24 GMT 1
Zi i didnt quite understood if you like my suggestion or not?? i am just saying that i know i used up 2 mana pots (and my mana pool is 7k+) only on dispeling and dedeseasing. and we came to first 2 mminute of fight only. also i know that i didnt drop even renew on nobody will that fight cause my finger was on dcr macro all the time. also you get that i didnt meant to remove some ppl from dcr assigments just to find some addon or make in dcr that every class have its on debuff curing with that we can have our mana saved. now i know i am repeating myself but i dont know really are you mad at me for my suggestion or you like it. and i dont wanna that you are mad at me d**n my english sukz
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Zianna
Council
Lady of Justice
Never underestimate the power of denial
Posts: 2,047
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Post by Zianna on Sept 21, 2006 11:15:35 GMT 1
*hugs Draktul* not mad at ya at all, hun, I just don't agree to your suggestions (if I read them right) to solve the issue.
In regard to your thought on priorities, the main reason I think it won't solve much is that afaik, the classes that can remove something can (I think) all remove 2 each? (possible except for mages). Since no class can remove the same 2 types, this should solve the "risk" of double curing, especially since they "fixed" dispelling so it ignores a target someone else was faster to cure.
Summa summarum: Ya get max points for effort but I'm not sure your suggestion will actually solve anything, based on the above. I actually think doing what (I think) you suggest will gimp our flexibility rather than save us mana, end result. My 2 p, obviously.
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Draktull
Trainee
I am paladin but you dont know that yet
Posts: 338
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Post by Draktull on Sept 21, 2006 12:06:12 GMT 1
*removes sweat from forehead and whispers into his chin* it's ok she don't hate you. *speaks loudly* ah ok then. we will knock him down next time.
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Post by Kurse on Sept 21, 2006 14:29:47 GMT 1
About sand - it was distributed to healers and hunters only. When the fight started I kinda realised the main tank also needed it so I dropped some on him after the start. I think this is gonna be a real problem for multiple attempts - I gave everyone 3 sands and most people used at least 2 just for the attempt we had. I think I have all the sand we have at the moment and there's about 160 left - we used approx 40 for the one attempt, I don't think we are ever going to have enough to distribute it to the whole raid.
Another thought - Obviously noone can have 5 debuffs or its pretty much a wipe, but it seems possible that the mana pool will not allow constant removal of all debuffs... seems to me there are debuffs which are less important to remove - black (increased fire damage ) not vastly important if you aren't getting hit by his breaths - which only the MT is. Having black plus red will lead to 100 damage every 3 seconds - not exactly instant death for that person, although if they do die it will heal chromaggus. Blue is painfull for casters, but not so much for melee as long as they compensate for the reduced movement speed when getting out of the way of breaths. Green is pretty painfull as its a fairly high damage dot that also reduces healing. To me it looks like we'd survive without worrying too much about removing black affliction, except on the MT which one druid could do if they were healing him anyway. Blue affliction needs to be got off anyone with mana and especially the people doing the decursing, before worrying about removing it from mellee. I think I'm right to say you can get CRTA to display all debuffs, although mine seems to be set up to only show ones I can remove myself, I wonder if there's something to be said for not just spamming a decursing mod and targetting debuff removal by some kind of priority:
Anyone with 4 debuffs > decurser/healer with blue > anyone with 3 debuffs > other caster with blue > anyone with combinations of green/red or red/black > anyone with green.
or something like that. Maybe it would be usefull to have one of the decursers totally in charge of calling more urgent debuff removal on TS ?
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Zianna
Council
Lady of Justice
Never underestimate the power of denial
Posts: 2,047
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Post by Zianna on Sept 21, 2006 14:43:32 GMT 1
Quick thought, I think I remember Felb saying they stack.
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Post by Kurse on Sept 21, 2006 15:07:11 GMT 1
I think that was the debuff from ignite flesh, one of his breath options that we had on the first attempt. Haven't noticed the afflictions stacking but maybe we've been to busy spamming their removal and or dieing to notice.
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Erath
Fallen
Lost Shadows
Posts: 587
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Post by Erath on Sept 27, 2006 13:51:29 GMT 1
pwnt. nef guide plx?
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Tardon
Fallen
Pink Bunneh (Bites!)
Fiery
Posts: 1,529
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Post by Tardon on Sept 27, 2006 16:00:37 GMT 1
Pff, to easy
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Post by mard on Oct 4, 2006 21:11:16 GMT 1
one thing about tanking teh dog ...
please, PLEASE tank him in such way that will allow us, rogues, to actually dps there. if we're beating on his head, those things will happen :
1) parry - my personal record was getting 5 sinister strikes, one by one, parried during last time, that means during one breath rotation i barerly scratched him with autoattacks, its wasted time, wasted energy and wasted damage. 2) more important : dagger rogues wont be able to backstab and thus deal damage - and its simply extremly frustrating and annoying - thank god im not dagger specced anymore, or id lost last shreds of sanity trying to sinister strike him down with a dagger during our last attempt ...
there is just not enough time to get behind him, deal some damage, and get out, with breaths, afflictions, stuns, and zi yelling at us about afflictions. only exception being time lapse - with lapse as next breath i can get there and stay there, becouse i have to eat lapse anyway.
the way i see it - he was being tanked with his right side glued to the wall. would it be possible to tank him a bit more to the right side of the gate ( right side looking from outside his room) ? we dont have to be exactly behind him, either side is just fine, but his left side was just too far from safe spot ( it would be gambling - will i make it to the safe spot, or got stuned and eat breath / or worse, get more afflictions and wipe the raid ?) and right side was glued to wall so we couldnt get there.
just my random rambling.
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Post by krktie on Oct 4, 2006 23:12:42 GMT 1
Ya.. had some trouble with his positioning, because when he runs for OTs, he goes through the wall, and then just walks back through it if OT is unlucky and gets stunned and can't move to the middle of the room to make him walk back in a straight line.
This might either be fixed by having OT team on the other side, so his left will be stuck in the other wall instead. Or I'm not sure if this will be okay without nerfing decursing, but the rogues that need to backstab might be better off being in the OT spot, ie behind him? We don't have many healers on dps from what I understand, so splitting melee up might not work, but ask the bosses!
Reason why you were asked to stand at the front is because that way you will be much more often in LOS to the decurser than if you just run out at breath warnings (or not run out at all at time lapse). Think LOS issues were what caused Barbazul to mutate the first time, and Zi says it was close a few times last kill.
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Felbane
Council
Lord of Ice
Frosty
Posts: 1,136
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Post by Felbane on Oct 9, 2006 15:11:40 GMT 1
some notes: the afflictions are not predictable, they come i random order and at random intervals. (as far as I can see) the afflictions don't hit the entire raid. I'm not even sure if they hit as many every time or if its a random number.
rogues: live with the parries. yeh I know, I've been there too, its a pain in the behind. If you start standing at the side of the dog etc, you drain curers of time and mana as they spend time looking for rogues and trying to get los, and spread out cures means more time outside the 5s rule etc.
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Post by Samathul on Oct 11, 2006 11:28:58 GMT 1
My take on the debuffing from last fight:
If the "debuffs cured" list, which was pasted to me was correct, there was ~720 curses/diseases and whatnots cured in the fight. Fight lasted 18 mins, so 20 debuffs were inflicted upon raid per 30 sec interval.
The intervals weren't random, and the pattern wasn't random from what I saw. It was something like: 0sec:10 curses+10 diseases, 30sec:10 disease + 10 poison, 1 min: 10 disease + 10 macig, 1 min 30 sec: 10 magic + 10 curses ect. Every few minutes (didn't have time to check the time accurately) I had a total "decurse round" free without dispelling, when there was 10 curses and 10 poisons to be cured at the same time. Great for regenning and if I recall correctly, I had 2-3 of them in that 18 min fight.
I have few ideas which would make the debuffing easier/mana friendlier, but they assume that my assumptions are correct. Mainly I want to know, if the debuffs cured list was a complete one, or if it didn't include persons that debuffed only few (1-50) debuffs.
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Erath
Fallen
Lost Shadows
Posts: 587
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Post by Erath on Oct 11, 2006 12:11:09 GMT 1
Sama, I'm pretty sure there were more than 720 - I don't think I pasted you the full list. From what I remember of it (and its gone forever now) the top 4 on the list were you with just over 300 (nref), oomo with just over 200, and ziko and me with just over 100, which i'm guessing is where you're getting your figure from. But there were plenty of people (other healers, mages) who decursed 50 or so, and then there are the ones that were removed by poison cleansing totems which I doubt get picked up by the meter. I'd guess you can add half as much again to your figure roughly, say about 1100 or so.
Next time we do it poke me and i'll whisper you the whole thing.
18 minute seems like a long time - should it go on that long?
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Post by Samathul on Oct 11, 2006 12:51:14 GMT 1
Ah crapola, that takes away my whole rant there then, Erath I calculated the numbers according to the list you showed to me (320+227+179) but as you said, it didn't show everything. Offtopic: My mod shows me being in combat with Chromaggus for 17 minutes 54 secs 300ms, which beats the 17min 34 secs 500ms Onyxia kill from 15th July by 20 secs BWL bossfights are in the ballpark of 6-10 minutes, MC trashbosses 3-5 minutes, Ragnaros lands pretty consistent with 5-6 minutes, General Rajaxx 11-13 minutes, Ossirian 9-11 minutes and Hakkar 6-9 minutes. Kills are from 19th June 2006 to 10th of October.
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Felbane
Council
Lord of Ice
Frosty
Posts: 1,136
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Post by Felbane on Oct 13, 2006 13:11:17 GMT 1
samathul: I saw curses not being applied for 3 minutes, then applied once on a number of people, then again 30 seconds later, and again 10 seconds after that, then nothing for several minutes again.
the numbers are taken out of the air, since I didn't actually time them, but should be roughly accurate. its possible that it was 40 adn 20 seconds rather than 30 and 10 for example. bottom line is, there was no pattern for what affliction was up next.
I'd also disagree with the 10 of one and 10 of another idea, I saw a lot more than 10 curses hit at once several times, even as many as 30.
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