Raiding build

[veth]

roward said:

15% crit, 1000 ap and 7000 hp but 308 hit rating, means you'd hit like a sissy, all your hits would land, but they'd rarely crit, and if you happen to get aoed or hit, you'd get one shotted.

i have 17% crit, 7.7k health and 1200 ap.. i feel violated.

xD

[Zianna]

veth said:

roward said:

15% crit, 1000 ap and 7000 hp but 308 hit rating, means you'd hit like a sissy, all your hits would land, but they'd rarely crit, and if you happen to get aoed or hit, you'd get one shotted.

i have 17% crit, 7.7k health and 1200 ap.. i feel violated.

xD

Chika, as I recall last night's kara run, you quite often were

[Draktull]

guys i dont know but your stats are way too low :/

d**n on lvl 67 i have 25% crit, 6.7k hp, 70 hit and 990ap

i i have crappy equipment :/

[veth]

zianna said:

veth said:

i have 17% crit, 7.7k health and 1200 ap.. i feel violated.

xD

Chika, as I recall last night's kara run, you quite often were

evul - just to defend myself (to save what i can xD lal) Ive never raided kara, yes i was bottom of dps, but i never started dps as early, or did asmuch as slit nor feyt xD i was simply scared of making mistakes, aaand i forgot to respecc combat, wich i did now, 20% crit, 8k health, and 83 hit now heh 1.3k ap heh. . atleast its improving

[Vanur]

About that profile Feyt, If you see his belt then it gives 25 sword skill raiting. Not sure how much of a boost that is with the talent that gives you 10 but I have a clue it might be capped for him. A guy wearing such a gear should clearly now when his hit is capped or not.

Edit: Oh and one other thing, perhaps he swaps to a hit trinket during bosses, since on trash you overcap hit. As it is now Im using scryer bloodgem till I get few upgrades, but on trash I swap to a damage trinket since trash mobs are usually just lvl 70-71

[Zianna]

*giggles* I actually meant deaths hun I don't run damagemeters for Kara and even if I did, I saw your gear, I know what the other 2 have and I know they know the place am just teasing ^^

[veth]

i know dear ^^ just pulling your leg, since you pulled mine *grin*'

oh well, hopefully the gear will improve in the future.

[roward]

valigar said:

About that profile Feyt, If you see his belt then it gives 25 sword skill raiting. Not sure how much of a boost that is with the talent that gives you 10 but I have a clue it might be capped for him. A guy wearing such a gear should clearly now when his hit is capped or not.

Edit: Oh and one other thing, perhaps he swaps to a hit trinket during bosses, since on trash you overcap hit. As it is now Im using scryer bloodgem till I get few upgrades, but on trash I swap to a damage trinket since trash mobs are usually just lvl 70-71

Itemization in BT doesn't really like +hit rating. Plenty of rogues raiding it aren't hit capped. Maybe things will change with the haste rating nerf, I dunno.

[roward]

draktull said:

guys i dont know but your stats are way too low :/

d**n on lvl 67 i have 25% crit, 6.7k hp, 70 hit and 990ap

i i have crappy equipment :/

Lvl 70 is where you'll gimp all your other stats for some + hit rating, if you're into pve a tiny bit. For Pvp, you'll stay at nearly 25% crit, will get about 5k hp more, but hit won't even be that high and ap won't really go higher either.

[roward]

veth said:

roward said:

15% crit, 1000 ap and 7000 hp but 308 hit rating, means you'd hit like a sissy, all your hits would land, but they'd rarely crit, and if you happen to get aoed or hit, you'd get one shotted.

i have 17% crit, 7.7k health and 1200 ap.. i feel violated.

xD

Hehe no worries Veth, first time I got ninjaed for Kara I was pvp speced, and I got lost for about 10 minutes to finally get summoned at the right place

[cekkuli]

valigar said:

About that profile Feyt, If you see his belt then it gives 25 sword skill raiting. Not sure how much of a boost that is with the talent that gives you 10 but I have a clue it might be capped for him. A guy wearing such a gear should clearly now when his hit is capped or not.

Items that increase some itemized weapon skill (for example +15 dagger skill) dont actually raise "general" weapon skill same amount. Formula for calculating this is that 3.9 points of dagger skill increase you general weapon skill by 1 point.

-Cekk

[Zianna]

cekkuli said:

valigar said:

About that profile Feyt, If you see his belt then it gives 25 sword skill raiting. Not sure how much of a boost that is with the talent that gives you 10 but I have a clue it might be capped for him. A guy wearing such a gear should clearly now when his hit is capped or not.

Items that increase some itemized weapon skill (for example +15 dagger skill) dont actually raise "general" weapon skill same amount. Formula for calculating this is that 3.9 points of dagger skill increase you general weapon skill by 1 point.

-Cekk

Is this cause of the "offhand nerf" (in lack of better words)?

[Felbane]

its because its "weapon skill RATING" 3.9 skill rating is 1 skill point. (at 70)

about weapon skill, it doesn't seem to have a cap to its effect. According to wowwiki:

In PvE (at least), a player's chance to miss is determined solely by the difference in the defending mob's Defense Skill and the player's Weapon Skill. Further, the effect is not linear. So, there are actually two different formulas that might apply, depending upon whether the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is greater than 10 or not. Here are the two formulas:

* If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is less than or equal to 10 then the formula for calculating your base miss rate against that mob is: 5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%

* If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is greater than 10, then the formula for calculating your base miss rate against that mob is: 7% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.4%

Applying these formulas gives the following base miss rate for a Level 70 character with a 350 Weapon Skill:

* v. Level 70 mob: 5.0%
* v. Level 71 mob: 5.5%
* v. Level 72 mob: 6.0%
* v. Level 73 mob: 9.0%

Thus if you are a Level 70 character with a Weapon Skill of 350, you need a Hit Rating of 142 (9.00%) to never miss a shot against a Level 73 boss (or skull mob).

What this means is that there is a big +hit benefit to keeping your Weapon Skill within 10 levels of the mobs you are trying to fight. For example, by improving your Weapon Skill from 350 to 355, you effectively reduce your chance to miss against Level 73 mobs by 3%! However, after getting to 355, increasing your Weapon Skill the next 5 levels, to 360, only reduces your chance to miss by an additional.5% (or 3.5% in total). Also, note that there is a huge jump in miss rate reduction by going from 354 to 355 Weapon Skill. This is the point where you switch from one formula to the other, and so this particular single point of Weapon Skill is worth a dramatic +1.4% hit against a Level 73 mob/boss.

This isn't ALL weapon skill does, but as far as I've found its the only info that is actually updated. it afffects parry chance and dodge chance of your enemy, and some other stuff, but how much is more than I know.
Also, for now it seems that the above is the only noticeable effect.

so the result? with the weaponskill talent, a rogue gets 360 weapon skill, 3.5% base miss chance, 22.5% total miss chance on white damage, and therefore a hit rating cap at 355 hit rating.

Note though that special attacks reach their hit cap at 55.3 already.

(and that for dual wielders, the hit rating cap is not significantly different between bosses and trash)

[Zianna]

I realise this thread has more or less died off and I'm possibly poking the sleeping bear here, but I just stumbled over a quote about +hit in raiding that I'd love to share:

How much hit should you have? Hit has a value in comparison to other damage boosting stats like AP and crit. Hit has significantly more value when you have a combat build because of combat potency. I'm not going to give you a number to target. If you PvP, hit is a lot less important. If you're just getting into epic raiding gear, you might have to give up a lot of hit. Are Shoulderpads of the Stranger better than Bladed Shoulderpads of the Merciless? God yes. Plug it into any DPS calculator and it's not even close. The cap for hit is 402.9. With precision that brings it down to about 324. Weapon skill effectively increases your hit as well. It's not much but it's a factor. With precision and weapon expertise/mace specialization the hit cap is 308.1. Do you need to maintain the hit cap? No. It's nice to go after but I wouldn't make every sacrifice in the world to get it.

This is a quote of Osiris, copy/pasted from docs.google.com/View?docid=dt4f32p_4dcj7jt
For the non-rogues: Precision is a combat talent that Increases your hit chance with melee weapons by 5% (5/5). Weapon Expertise was already covered in this thread.

/vanish

[Felbane]

nice link that, much info and he seems to have thought things through.